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Author Topic:   bot issues
daz
Member

Posts: 42
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-08-2001 04:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Okay, I hate to complain, but something is really bothering me about the bot. I just finished playing a long game, and towards the end, the teams were like 4 vs 8. And out of the 4, 2 people probably don't know how to attach, and are flying around aimlessly. Of course, all the other freq is flagging.

My problem is, once the teams start getting unfair, the bot will say "uneven teams" 2 or 3 times, then it'll start giving out last warnings. Just to get to the last warning takes .. what.. 5 minutes? So, after waiting a while, the 2 people on my freq that actually know how to fire kill someone from the other freq. He gets converted. Now, do you think he's going to fight on my freq? Hell no, he'd rather sit in spec than fight on the losing team.

Maybe we could make the bot convert people sooner, or make it illegal to jump to spec if you get switched. Either way, I think this problem should be fixed, or at least looked into.

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daz / pornstar style

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Chicken-Man-
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Posts: 158
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 11-08-2001 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken-Man-   Click Here to Email Chicken-Man-     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
i dont like the bot period...used to mods would do that stuff
CM - swz forever

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Revenger
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Posts: 74
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 11-08-2001 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Revenger     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I had noticed also that once the music starts the losing freq empties, and it ends up being 15 to 7 and does not start converting until the flags are dropped, thats just too long.

-Rev

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daz
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Posts: 42
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-08-2001 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I agree with Chicken Man. Remember a while ago when the mods used to fix up the teams? They usually wouldn't change much during play, but once the music started, and the teams started getting uneven, they would move a few good players around. I find that worked much better. You'd find less people dropping to spec after being switched.

Ever since that bot came around, I find more and more often that people get away with breaking the rules. How many times have I been killed by a cap in center, and used the ?cheater command, with no results. Or how many times have some of you guys been antied in middle?

I'm not bitching out the mods, because I don't even know who is a mod and who isn't. I just think it's time for them to start kicking a little ass around.

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daz / pornstar style

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Chicken-Man-
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Posts: 158
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 11-08-2001 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken-Man-   Click Here to Email Chicken-Man-     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
preferably some bot ass
CM - swz forever

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Packetloss
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Posts: 34
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 11-08-2001 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Packetloss   Click Here to Email Packetloss     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I dont think you have a understanding on how hard it is to run games. Just running SWZT is hard enough for one person to do I can imagine how hard running the entire pub is!!!! You dont have a understanding on how much help that bot does keeps rec of TKs/ Manges the entire flag game/ arena messageing/ keeps ship-freq in order and even more i can think of off hand
The bot may be a hassle but does a lot more good than bad

-50% Packetloss
SWZT Ref / The_Magi Cap

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Circle
Moderator

Posts: 230
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-08-2001 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Circle     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I like the bot. Most importantly, it deals with illegals. As for the uneven team thing, yeah, it'll be much better if bot starts converting sooner.

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DCR
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Posts: 637
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-08-2001 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DCR     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
What is a moderator now, anyway? A guy with a bit of power and a space for his name on the map? A bot performs all or most of the functions a moderator used to, so the position basically exists to make nobodies feel important (like WhizzBanger, haha). Why not just get rid of it?

------------------
- DeathComesRipping
6 time returning champion on Who Wants To Be An Asshole?

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garath
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Posts: 151
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-09-2001 03:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garath   Click Here to Email garath     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I hate the bot! It sucks when you spend 3 hours suicidng your ass trying to base rape the nme to grab flags and then being unlucky enough to die and get converted.


garath

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RedT
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Posts: 170
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 11-09-2001 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedT     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
People, do you still remember the bot feature where it removed anti if you had it in center? How was your opinion on that? Because the only reason it sucked was that my anti was removed as cap a few times when I got either doored or bricked to center.

But you just cant put in a 2 second delay on the remove-anti feature because people would still be able to turn it on for 1.5 secs and then off and on again....

Well, should that feature be put back in or not?

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Crawdaddy
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Posts: 69
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-09-2001 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I say put it back in. If possible, add a delay of 2 seconds and have the bot watch to see if someone has put anti on in the center 3 times total. So, the anti would be removed if it's on for longer than 2 seconds and it would be removed if it was on 3 separate occasions during that session.

-Craw

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Chicken-Man-
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Posts: 158
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 11-09-2001 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken-Man-   Click Here to Email Chicken-Man-     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
with the bot the mods have nothing to do, used to the mods worked hard for the zone, but now the newer mods dont work as hard as the older 1s, not that im tearing them down, but they dont have to cuz the bot "fixes" problems....the illegal thing yes i understand that that i remember ws irritating if u werent paying attention but we should have mods in the zone IN SPEC more often to regulate even teams
CM - SS forever

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daz
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Posts: 42
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-09-2001 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Concerning the bot, I never suggested removing it. I agree that it does a lot. I'm just saying if the mods see that it's 15 vs 5 or whatever, maybe they shouldn't be affraid to shuffle a few good players around.

And about the bot removing anti in the middle. I think it's a good idea. While, I think most have us have ended up in the middle with anti on a few times by accident (getting doored, or just plain forgetting), it'll probably teach us to pay a little more attention to it. If you put a 2 second grace period, that seems pretty fair.

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daz / pornstar style

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KillerKongFu
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Posts: 62
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 11-09-2001 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KillerKongFu   Click Here to Email KillerKongFu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I like the bot...the way it is. I disagree with daz about switching some "good" players from the winning freq to the lossing freq. Thats bs especially if the music is going. Think how mad the guy would be that he/she got switched bc they are good. I say it should be random don't pick on the good flaggers all it will do is piss them off. And these players got good b/c they have played this zone alot so you would be making the core of swz upset. About the center anti thing i think the once in center make bot take it off. If your a cap and forget to turn it back on once you get back to home or enmy then tough learn to watch it. Well thats my 6 cents worth.

KKF

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just a decoy
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Posts: 253
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-09-2001 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for just a decoy   Click Here to Email just a decoy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Daz: wtf are you talking about? "shuffle a few GOOD players around" Firstly who defines good players? I mean if I work my ass off for a jp I would be very pissed if a mod changed my freq while I was winning!

It is not the winning freqs fault if ppl give up and exit just because they lost a base. The bot does a better job of keeping teams even. I agree that the convert speed should be increased. And for the record it is not illegal to hop in spec and "try" to get on the origional frq if you get converted.

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daz
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posted 11-09-2001 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I didn't really mean just pick on the better flaggers. I think switching around people who are actually flagging would be better than switching around the people who come in asking "WHY IS EG DOWN?!", but what good would that do? I didn't mean 'good' as in 'skilled', I meant as in a 'good sport' kind of way. People who won't whine and drop to spec.

I agree with what you said just a decoy, I would be pissed if I got converted too after busting my ass flagging. And it's not the winning team's fault everyone drops out of the losing team, but, am I the only one that notices the teams get really unfair? And uneven teams make for boring flagging.

And concerning it not being illegal to drop in spec after being converted, I never said it was illegal. I just said when that happens, it makes the idea of even teams a lot harder. How long does it take to convert someone from the moment the bot says 'uneven teams'? If the converted player drops to spec, that just a waste the time spent waiting for the teams to even up.

Either way, I'm just giving suggestions on how I think the zone can be approved. I don't really care about being on the losing team since I usually end up scoreresting a lot, but I think it might have a negative effect on the zone. *shrugs*

Whatever happened to having polls? Didn't we used to poll things before?


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daz / pornstar style

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Subslayer !
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Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-11-2001 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Subslayer !   Click Here to Email Subslayer !     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
i admit the bot should convert faster, but on the other hand, i hope the convert time will remain above 200 sec (flag drop timer).
after a long game, 1 team finally get all 15 flags and the other team leave or hop to spec what leaves 2 uneven teams.
i dont like the idea that u could get converted when ur fighting ur ass off defending the 15 flags to win the game.

is it possible not to convert at all when 1 team has all flags? just an idea ...

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Mom
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Posts: 330
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-11-2001 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I understand the frustration with the bot and the evening teams...

Not saying this is what we will do, but just THINK about it and give your opinion (and no need to cuss):

Mods switch those who are obviously centerkilling once the warning appears?

The problem which I see that lies here are those who have large bounties or are turreting.

I have always maintained that this is a flagging zone, but have been told by the sysops that centerkilling is just normal for any zone.

So, centerkillers run the risk of getting converted? Just as they run the risk of getting switched to cap?

There is a 2 min delay, then a 1 min delay before the bot starts switching people (according to what I was told).

Anyway... try and keep this thread non-hostile and clean so we can get some good ideas.

Thanks!

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Mom
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Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-11-2001 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Additionally, thoe mods are there to mainly keep the game running smoothly, not to make sure people play honorably.

We have been doing a bunch of things according to the suggestions you, the population, have made:

1. Map changed and upcoming changes

2. Elim bots so you didn't have to wait for a mod.

3. Pointman is trying to fix the lag settings

4. Trying to get a lot more events (suggestions welcomed)

5. Working on getting a stable prize bot, it really isn't available at the moment but it is not forgotten

6. More information and updated information on the news.txt and the website

7. Continually trying to find ways to make the zone the way you (the general population) would like it.

8. Private nights with flag upgrades, green surprises

The players of the zone are the ones who really have the most influence on the atmosphere of the zone. SWZ is a lot like a small town in the middle of nowhere. We all know the personalities, the quirks, etc.

When anyone new comes into a small town, they will feel like outsiders and will either be welcomed or treated poorly and leave. If they don't leave from the poor treatment, they usually stay because they like to treat others poorly and feel comfortable picking on newbies (as they were picked on)

The mods can ask people to be nicer, but it really is up to the pilot on how he wants his zone to be. We aren't babysitters. This is YOUR zone.

I am really glad Daz says he doesn't care what team he is on, winning or losing. That shows he just loves to play the game. Those are the ones who really help and keep the zone alive. It isn't a private freq issue or not. It is an attitude issue. Are you here to play and have fun? Or, just to see how many people you can tick off?

Back in the day, I liked the Speed Zone. It didn't keep track of points, just stats for THAT 20 min game. It was the spirit of the game that made it fun.

Again, we are trying to incorporate what suggestions we can. Not all are possible. Some are being worked on as we speak. Other ideas are still being ironed out (like this one). Will everyone be happy? No. Can we change everything at once? No.

Off the soapbox... blood sugars are running low again.

Mom

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Crawdaddy
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Posts: 69
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-11-2001 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I agree with Mom completely. I only have but one question. I'm not quite sure what you're saying is the problem with converting centerkillers if they're turreting. And if a player is going to be converted by a mod and they have a high bounty, why not just prive them back up to it?

-Craw

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Mom
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posted 11-11-2001 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
That is a possibility as long as there is a smod around, otherwise they will have to be either:

1. Put on the prize list or

2. Just prove they can get a high bty again

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Mom
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posted 11-11-2001 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
oh and Craw.. it was centerkillers AND turreters.. not just those centerkilling turrets.

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Crawdaddy
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posted 11-11-2001 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure what you think I thought there. Oh well. I think the centerkillers and turreters that are centerkilling should both be converted. And actually, now that I think about it, usually those with high btys are people that are capable of doing it when they feel like it. I say convert them, too, and maybe not even reimburse them with bty. I'm not sure how that would sit with everyone else, though...

-Craw

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DARKest_DAys
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posted 11-11-2001 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DARKest_DAys   Click Here to Email DARKest_DAys     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
so if everyone is in spec then join them :/ let the other freq get bored and leave, tho it may kill swz but at least u helped make the teams 2v2

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Dodj
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posted 11-12-2001 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dodj     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
switching anyone someone who is centerkilling, ie, does not want to flag is not going to do a thing to even up the games...all it will do is make the numbers look nice.

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Wanderito
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posted 11-12-2001 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wanderito   Click Here to Email Wanderito     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
If I got converted when centerkilling I would spec directly and wait to get on the same freq again.
Because I am on the freq because of the shipset on the freq.And when I'm centerkilling I'm not there for bnty ,only the rec.If you lose big bnty just green it up again.Anybody can do that.I wouldn't mind that much being specced centerkilling,but I don't know if the teams would be more even.

Wander

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Mom
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posted 11-12-2001 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
we arent saying to spec the centerkillers. We are saying to force them to the other team so the teams remain even and the people flagging aren't killed and converted.

If anyone is any good at centerkilling then they won't care what ship they are in since they are l33t (rolling eyes, lol)

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daz
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posted 11-13-2001 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
One idea I remember reading here was someone (forget who) mentionned the idea of having two large flagging freqs, and other small centerkilling freqs (max 1 player). That way, if someone wants to sit around in the center and typekill people, he's able to do so, without hindering the flagging freqs team balance.

Hey, here's a thought. Get rid of that ?scorereset command. That should fix up a few center killers (they'll probably just end up making 100 different names right?)


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daz / pornstar style

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Crawdaddy
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posted 11-13-2001 07:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I'm all for small centerkilling freqs. I say make them with max of 3 player slots, though, because some people like turretting. So you're saying that if someone isn't flagging and is on a flagging freq, then that person can be converted onto a centerkilling freq? And what about powerball players?

-Craw

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Chicken-Man-
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posted 11-13-2001 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken-Man-   Click Here to Email Chicken-Man-     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
id rather get rid of center altogether
CM - SS Forever

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Crawdaddy
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posted 11-13-2001 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Also, what's to keep the people that have been converted to centerkilling freqs from hopping back to flagging freqs? A bot could be used to detect centerkillers, lock them into a centerkilling freq, and release them to a flagging freq upon request. If the person is detected centerkilling again, then they'll be locked on centerkilling freq for remainder of game.

-Craw

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Mom
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posted 11-13-2001 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mom   Click Here to Email Mom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
When the teams are even they cannot hop. We are not going to have a private freq just for centerkillers.

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DARKest_DAys
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posted 11-13-2001 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DARKest_DAys   Click Here to Email DARKest_DAys     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
make the center one big safe zone and holes for greens in them, that should stop the center killing

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daz
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posted 11-13-2001 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
It seems that unfair teams are due to centerkillers? I agree with Chicken Man's idea of getting rid of the center, but I'm not sure how well the rest of you would feel about that. That's quite a radical change.


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daz / pornstar style

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Wanderito
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posted 11-13-2001 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wanderito   Click Here to Email Wanderito     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The center is the heart of swz.You can't get rid of it.The game wouldn't be the same.And what about when there is only 5-10 players online?

And btw mom I can play with all ships. I just like the freq 0 ships better

Wander

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daz
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posted 11-13-2001 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daz   Click Here to Email daz     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
the center is the heart of swz? oh, and me thinking it was a flagging zone this whole time. how silly of me.

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Dodj
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posted 11-14-2001 05:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dodj     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
make the whole center a safe zone....hmm ive heard some stupid ideas in my time but that has got to b up there with the best of em'.

make a trip to the duel arena and see how ur frame rate handles the safe zone in there. Now, mutiply that drop in fps by total area of the center, then divide by 3.14437, the final answer = stupid.

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Chicken-Man-
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posted 11-14-2001 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken-Man-   Click Here to Email Chicken-Man-     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
ive got an idea......3 freqs, dunno how itd work.....2 flag freqs and 1 noob freq, be hard to decifer between ck'ers and flaggers.....

CM - SS Forever

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Crawdaddy
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posted 11-14-2001 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crawdaddy   Click Here to Email Crawdaddy     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
CM: it's been done. "Pirate Freq" is what we called it.

-Craw

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Misoza
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Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-14-2001 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Misoza   Click Here to Email Misoza     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Pirate frew hey craw? ahoy me hearty!!! lol

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