posted 06-06-2001 01:42 AM            

[Full tower, $50]

[Pentium IV 1.7ghz processor, $226]

[384mb Ram- $180]

[Asus 5-pci 1-isa 1-agp 2-4x 4Rimm slots, $159]

[GeForce 3, $343]

[Sound blaster Live Plus, $100]

[12x- Cd-Rw, 10x- Cd-R, 32x- Read, 6x- DVD COMBO, $159]

[DVD-RAM Recorder, $250]

[60 Gig HD 7200 rpm, $120]

[52x Cd-Rom Maxtor, $30]

[Ethernet card 10/100, Already have]

[56k modem pci motorola, $20]

[3.5" floppy, $5]

[Standard Keyboard, $5]

[5 button optical mouse, $20]

[speakers, already have stereo system to hook up to]

[21" monitor, already have]

Total:$1667
Not including shipping

if anyone has any opinions on this PLS reply

posted 06-06-2001 01:57 AM            

Nah, let's forget the stuff in that other topic and let me congratulate ya on a textbook computer

posted 06-06-2001 09:37 AM         

Also some of the stuff you mentionned just means nothing.

[GeForce 3, $343]
your buying only the chip or also the board (card if u prefer) that supports it ? which card ?

[60 Gig HD 7200 rpm, $120]
The noise varies very much from one brand to another. This one could be noisy as hell, what brand ?

Edit : Also, im not sure but i think i've read on Tom's Hardware Guide that mobos that support DDR ram and Pentium 4 will be out in a few weeks.

posted 06-06-2001 03:09 PM         

...or just buy an AMD and get better performance for a lower price.

As for the GeForce3 card, it looks like (judging by the price) he's going for the Visiontek, which is straight factory specs, or the Hercules, which is slightly better. I would pay the extra $30 and get the Asus v8200-Deluxe. It has 3.8ns memory, extra heatsinks, and a lot of other nice additions (VR goggles? well, probably wont use those too much, but still cool). And if you get the Asus, make sure it's the "Deluxe". The "Pure" has the 4.0 memory, like the visiontek. Not too sure about the other models, since they aren't actually released yet, but you can't lose with Asus.

I just put in a 1.33ghz Athlon, Iwill ka266-raid, and 768megs of DDR Dimm. I am more than pleased with the performance.

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BloodDrinker
{Eminence}

posted 06-06-2001 03:15 PM         

Oh... go to www.madonion.com to check out the latest benchmarks for the GeForce3 cards, as well as the p4's and athlons. Intel = spreadsheets, AMD = games. =)

posted 06-06-2001 03:38 PM         

But on my part i wouldnt buy right now, i'll wait to see what kind of power can the nForce deliver. For the ones not really up to date, nVIDIA (the company who develloped all Geforce chips) just made an alliance with amd and will be producing a motherboard similiar to what they are putting in microsoft X-Box. That mobo has audio and video onboard.

i know many of you are probably laughing at most of mobos with video onboard and same goes for audio but currently the audio is more powerfull than any product ever developped by Creative (soundblaster) and the video is about the performance of a Geforce 2 MX.

nVidia + AMD alliance = cheap system
nVidia + AMD alliance will equal no compatibility issues....

I'll stop now, because i know i may be a little over-enthousiastic but im pretty sure that nForce mobo will be worth it.

posted 06-06-2001 09:36 PM         

Don't worry, Ray. I use it for Continuum too. =)

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BloodDrinker
{Eminence}

posted 06-08-2001 12:15 AM            

AMD or Pentium?
I mean im into alittle gaming. but i do more spreadsheets, some programming, and some html. (learning in programming and html) i dont know much about AMD so thats why im asking.

please respond

posted 06-08-2001 04:57 AM            

I see no actual difference when I'm at my sis' comp with a 1 Gig Pentium. Of course I'm only a comp n00b and there is difference, a lot even, but if you look at the price compared to the capability, I'd say GO for AMD Athlon 1 GHz (or more)

-TPS

posted 06-08-2001 06:46 PM         

a few weeks ago Intel released the Pentium 4 1700 mhz.

a few days ago, if not yesterday, AMD released the Athlon (Thunderbird) 1400 mhz.

At this point the vast majority of ou are probably thinking : "Intel owns Amd". But its quite the opposite.

In benchmarks, Athlon Thunderbird 1400 is roughly equal to Pentium 4 1700. Athlon being a little faster Unreal Tournament, Pentium being a little faster in Quake 3 and Internet content creation. Athlon cleary leading the picture rendering category.

Now, a lot of you might not completely understand what i am talking about so i'll do a Processor vs Cars kinda thing

Pentium 4 1700 mhz = Big engine, consumes a lot. Buy price higher.
Athlon TBird 1400 mhz = Normal engine, consumes less. Buy price lower.

But both have roughly the same acceleration, same topspeed and same other stats. Everything is pretty much the same.

Now, you choose the engine you want. On my part i don't think the choice is hard to make.

posted 06-09-2001 01:52 AM         

Really, it all comes down to which type of apps you want to see the better performance in. AMD is best for 3d games and the really greedy graphical applications. Intel is best for 2d and a lot of the more mundane usages of a computer.
One thing I would keep in mind is that in a 2d environment, and assuming you dont play any 3d games whatsoever, you would be just as well off owning an intel p3 or amd k6-2 as getting a p4. If you're using 100% of your CPU doing a spreadsheet or playing subspace, you have a software/driver/memory problem.

There are obviously specific cases that I am not mentioning, but I am trying to generalize for the sake of argument. My point is that you dont need a 1gig+ processor if you arent playing games, making movies, etc. Take the extra money and set up a raid, or buy some more memory. You'll get a much better performance boost from either of those options if you aren't planning to go play the newest game to come out.

If you do want big performance for 3d games, this is the system I would build, using the parts that are currently released:

CPU - Athlon 1.33ghz 266 fsb

Mobo - Iwill Ka266-Raid

Memory - 184-pin DIMM (266mhz DDR) pc2100; at least two 256meg sticks

Storage - 4x30gig Maxtor 7200 rpm ide drives (dont pay for the 10000rpm ibm's or fuss with the scsi drives - my opinion, though)

Video - Asus v8200-Deluxe GeForce3 card

DVD - Creative or Asus only.

CDRW - Get a cheap one. DVD burners are coming down in price fast.

Internet - Cable modem. DSL if cable not available.

Sound - SBLive-Value (cheap and good quality)

Speakers - Klipsch THX Certified

Mouse - Logitech Mouseman Wheel

Keyboard - an old one you gutted from your last five systems with soda stains and a sticky Num Lock key.

Case - AOpen Super Tower

Power Supply - 300w Sparkle

Monitor - Use the VR goggles that come with the vid card or buy a KDS 19" =)

Just remember: a good computer should cost more than the down-payment on your car. Set your priorities. =)

posted 06-09-2001 03:33 PM         

As for the AMD v Intel... I'm for some reason drawn to Intel just because they've never done me wrong. But from all the benchmarks I've seen, AMD has done their homework and they did it very well. I read a while back that the P4 has some instructions on the chip that people aren't taking advantage of right now, but could be useful later...? Hence some of the earlier benchmarks I saw were a little skewed? Not sure if that's the case still.

posted 06-09-2001 03:42 PM            

If you want to run a server, I would go with a Pentium (or dual Pentiums) because it crashes less and is less likely to burn out. Athalons are better for gaming, but you should have a 300w power supply to keep everything running smoothly.

I am running an Athalon Thunderbird 1ghz, and I've had no problems.

posted 06-09-2001 04:43 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by V-Chip:
Athalons are noticeably better than Pentiums speed wise, but they use more power and are less stable than Pentiums.

From what i know pentium had to pump up P3 voltage to keep up with the performance on the athlons, and at that time athlons were comsuming less that p3s, about thunderbird vs p4 i admit i dont really know. And about the stability, it is not related to the athlon processor it is related to motherboard chipset makers that fear the wrath of intel very much who didnt supply good slot A and socket a motherboard till recently. So there is kind of a bad image of the athlon staility because of the lame chipset makers.

The Pentium 4 is the first major Pentium structure overhaul Intel has done on its processors, so it is considerably better than the Pentium 3.

this is half true, pentium 4 integrated a lot of new "commands" that will eventually improve its effectiveness, but at this point P4 is NOT considerably better than P3. And if you want my opinion we will see 64 bits PC processors hit the home user market before software actually takes advantage of those new instructions on P4.

If you want to run a server, I would go with a Pentium (or dual Pentiums) because it crashes less and is less likely to burn out.

I would go also with dual Pentiums, (or Xeons if ou have money), not because of the two conpletely wrong statements you have made but because of the Motherboard chipset that are more "intel compatible".

Athalons are better for gaming, but you should have a 300w power supply to keep everything running smoothly.

If your a gamer, you will go with a 300W power supply no matter if you use an iten or amd processor because you video card eats a lot of it. Especially if its a geforce.... And i agree about the fact that Athlons score better that pentium for gaming. But the important part is that most gamer dont want to waste money to have a "intel inside" sticker.

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posted 06-10-2001 12:49 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by jacobs ladder:
I run a 650 p3 with a voodoo 3 128m of ram on cable, ask potsy how good those kilpsh speakers r he has a set.( very nice) kilpsh r $499 canadian

---

That's $24.99 U.S., right? hehe Seriously, the Klipsch speakers are THE BEST speakers I have ever heard. I scare young rap stars out of my "hood" when I pump up the SWZ victory music.

As for P4 direction sets, I would have to agree that it will be outdated before it is utilized to its fullest.
1:Dual athlons are out now.
2:AMD/Nvidia collaboration will blow anything intel can do as far as graphics out of the water.
3:Nfinite FX is the trend of the future, creating a brave new world that places the processor one rung down the list of most important pieces of equipment in your case.

And yes, when I listed 4 30gig ide's, I meant you should set up a raid. Otherwise, you would be better off using a 10k rpm scsi and a 7200 rpm ide as master and slave, and using the extra cash for larger drives. A 30gig ide is cheap. Hell, Best Buy had them on sale for under $100 two weeks ago. Cheap raid systems = happy gamers. Dont ask me to set yours up, though. My system barfs at me if I even pick up a screwdriver anymore.

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BloodDrinker
{Eminence}
SWZFL Ref

posted 06-11-2001 03:01 PM         

Whatever you're building, you may/probably want dual proc, at least 512megs to a gig of RAM, probably RAID (SCSI or IDE), and a phat case (Chenbro... ohh some of them are nice). Of course you're going to want to get some phat hard drives for storage. If traffic isn't going to be too heavy, one nic should work but you may consider a few if traffic is bottlenecked.

In terms of video and sound, you probably want to go with entry level stuff since people probably aren't going to be gaming right off the server (unless you want to invite a system crash ). Maybe no sound even.

posted 06-11-2001 08:10 PM         

I've only ever hosted one game at a time on a machine but I assume you're probably going to need some proc power. From what I understand since it's only serving out packets you don't need like the fully decked out machine but something pretty solid. Probably want to go dual proc if all 13 or more people log in to play. RAM... 512 should be good but since it's so cheap, you may want to just get a gig. I'd personally go P3s, something affordable, 800mhz+ cause it's cheap and you also save money with the older RAM. Never hurts to check out http://www.overclockers.com if you don't already. If you have money to spend, by all means get the cream of the crop.

I still say no gaming off of the main server. I've done it before with a test box I have here playing UT, but I've heard people have had flakiness with it. If you want to play off it, better to get the nice audio video stuff, else bare bone it and save the money to upgrade your main play machine. Just let the server sit there and be a server. Whether it be linux or windows, you'll get some great up times if you don't tinker with it once it's setup and patched up.

Oh and if you want to game, I suggest against wireless setup. I sometimes get bad packetloss from my WAN. I got a Linksys AP and the PCI card as well. Tried to play Subspace through that and my dsl... got like ~20% packetloss. My normal when I'm going through ether is around .1 .1. Maybe you won't get the same loss I see but it's probably safe and cheaper if you go with ether where you can.

posted 06-12-2001 04:09 AM            

As for P4 v athlon...running todays apps go for the athlon...but in the future no doubt that software producers will be modeling their software for the p4...as they always do for intel..so future apps the p4 will prolly outperform the athlon...like abadx was saying.

posted 06-13-2001 02:15 PM         

Do you have direct line of sight to the other rooms who want to hook up to you? You can really go to town if so.

posted 06-19-2001 03:50 PM            

First, the Pentium 4 did not just add a few new commands. As written in a PC Magazine article ( http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/reviews/0,6755,2668435,00.html ), the P4 is "Intel's first all-new chip architecture since the Pentium Pro ..."

Second, Athlons use about 10 watts more than Pentiums do. An Athlon 1.3GHz has a core voltage around 1.7v or 1.75v, and uses about 35 amps. Volts x amps = Power (watts), so that means 1.3GHz Athlons release about 60 watts of heat. A Pentium 4 1.5GHz dissipates 52 watts or so, however. That's an 8 watt difference right there, and the .2GHz difference between processors is easily enough to make up for 2 more watts, creating a 10 watt difference. Check here, here, here, here, and here. Spec sheets from AMD and Intel are also available here and here, accordingly. Haven't been able to find much on Pentium III's yet.

As for Pentiums being more stable and dying less than Athlons, I can't really support it with evidence, but I have heard it from LOTS of tech people. I'm pretty damn sure its right.

Might be worth your time to look some of this stuff up .

posted 06-19-2001 11:41 PM         

Take a look at the average intel chip's usage versus that of an AMD chip.

Who uses intel? People who buy a $499 system from gateway. Sorry about the rhododendrons!

Who uses AMD? Pretty much anyone who builds their own system.

There is a reason for this. People are smart enough to ealize that if your big, scary,"unstable" AMD blows up five years down the road, who cares? Not only is it totally unlikely to happen unless you get zealous with your overclocking, but any processor will be obsolete by then. Durability means jack when all parts come with a three year manufacturer's warranty nowadays.

AMD gets a bad rep because people who don't know what they are doing try to do it themselves, then bitch to no end when they fry something cause they forgot to ground themselves after petting the cat, or set the jumpers wrong, or something similarly idiotic.

I have used both types of processors on and off for many years, and I have had less trouble with AMD processors (and got better performance, BTW) than intel.

Now that more mobo manufacturers are actually catering to AMD's cpu's, there is a vast improvement in the area of compatability. It just wasn't so ten years ago.

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BloodDrinker
{Eminence}
SWZFL Ref

posted 06-20-2001 08:05 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by BloodDrinker:
It just wasn't so ten years ago.

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